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Bought myself some “natural” Pure CBD crystal from CBD Wellness NM, Arrived in AUS – Report

By August 1, 2016General
all 30 comments

[–]Dyecraze 11 points

I wish you had posted in here asking about the “99% pure CBD” before dropping your 200AUS dollars on it… For one thing I would never trust a website so shady as this one; they don’t even put more than one “testimonial” up and frankly I don’t believe that one is authentic. Another thing is, this is INDUSTRIAL GRADE CBD, derived from INDUSTRIAL GRADE HEMP… This is not a medical product. CBD’s benefits come from its natural synergy with THC-a and other cannabanoids. Most high CBD oils in the colorado market are still at a fairly low percentage of CBD and have a decent amount of THC. Honestly what you have is garbage which i would not ingest. “Currently, it is not possible to legally buy cannabis oil online. Some manufacturers circumvent that by offering what they claim to be CBD oil made from industrial hemp, which is legal in some countries. Hemp is low in THC and it is debatable whether it has any significant amount of CBD as well. Additionally, a recent report has come out about consumers becoming seriously ill as a result of contaminated hemp oil products, a risk that runs high in commercial hemp production. We strongly caution against buying CBD oil online as it is potentially unsafe and of inferior quality.” http://www.cbdfarm.org/cbd-oil-for-sale.html

[–]Kundalini_ 3 points

I have a industrial grade hemp oil that works just fine for my medical problems. No chest irritation at all. You know it’s not the VG because it’s an inert compound that your body processes into CO2 and glucose.
CBD is CBD, the cannidols ARE present in hemp, just in lower concentrations than in cannabis. Thing is, it is difficult to get CBD oil because pharmaceutical corporations are quickly trying g to brand it as a drug (as opposed to a food supplement).

Next time, save yourself some money and extract the CBD yourself instead of some random internet vendor, if you can read and follow a method, it’s not difficult.

[–]eshaylad123[S] 1 point

thanks for your reply, the fact that its a legitimate dispensary in USA (as far as i know) and that they claim its “natural” i thought it must be ok… but i guess not.

youre correct, it seems garbage and unsafe, unfortunately i was the guinea pig…

where did you find the “industrial grade” label? i see on cbd farms but not on the buying site, i actually bought it from etsy lol. i cant seem to find it… not that i doubt you 🙂

luckily a friend has some proper cbd strains in progress at the moment, i just hope i didnt wreck my lungs this sucks lol

[–]Dyecraze 5 points

This is from the front page of their website, “WE GUARANTEE THAT YOUR CBD CRYSTALLINE IS 100% INDUSTRIAL HEMP DERIVED AND 100% LEGAL.”

[–]pharmaconautmodified MKIII Swagelok 5 points

This is not a dispensary.

[–]LilRupie 5 points

If it were a legitimate dispensary they wouldn’t be shipping illegal substances across the world.

[–]colocures 0 points

Even the DEA admits now that CBD derived from certain methods (mature hemp stalks with low THC) is legal federally.

This product, if it is legit, may be pretty good, though as someone else mentioned, there is an entourage effect with other cannabinoids and this CBD isolate may not hold as great of medicinal effect when administered without the other components.

[–]cl0bro 3 points

Listen to him… Basically snake oil… You’re better off trying to find a strain high in cbd and low in thc and source the seeds and grow!.. As for.your wheeze.. I’m going to say its from the ejuice… I’ve been screwing around with vapeur extract recently and I’ve noticed a wheeze and phlegm when I wake up in the morning

[–]mastererrl 3 points

This is why research is key. So you don’t pay $200 to get sick.

[–]THTree 2 points

You definitely had the right idea! But generally when something is too good to be true, it is. So when you see 100% legal CBD crystals, red flags should go up right away. As has been pointed out, this is derived from hemp, and the benefits from this are minimal at best, and come at the expense of your health – you have no way of verifying the grow process or anything of that nature, and whenever i see the word “industrial”labeled on a product meant for human consumption, i tend to avoid. Sorry bud – i would toss whatever you have left and chalk it up to an interesting experience that you hopefully wont have to repeat. Next time you have any questions, feel free to stop by here first! we coulda saved you a couple bills

[–]eshaylad123[S] 1 point

i didnt notice the industrial 🙁 silly me to be so trusting of a store trying to sell so called “medicinal” compounds thanks for your reply

[–]Faxon 2 points

most of the issues you have sound like they’re from the big old vape pen. i had similar issues when i got into vaping and just stopped entirely since I was doing it for flavor/terpenes rather than nicotine. definitely helped alter my dab buzz when I didn’t have the most ideal meds on hand but wasn’t worth getting bronchitis every other month for weeks on end

[–]vman4402 2 points

Yes. I use this particular product all the time. I’m not exactly sure what effect you were looking for, but this CBD crystallite is tested 0% THC and advertised as having no psychoactive effects. It is used for it’s CBD properties only. I personally use it for its anti-inflammatory properties. My wife and son use it for acid reflux. My friend uses it for his blood sugar, and I have another friend that uses it for anxiety. If you were looking for a “high” you were definitely wasting your money. In fact, since THC and CBD are on opposite ends of the spectrum, mixing CBD with a THC product will lessen the effectiveness of both products.

[–]ManWhoSmokes 2 points

I’ve used some from a place in Southern California which specializes in cbd strains. The crystals were supposedly 99.98% CBD, the color was ever so slightly yellow. Among the crystals was powder that had been broken off. I would scoop out the smallest amount, melt it over a lighter. And just dab it on a titanium nail. It tasted like a light plastic, but pleasant. I made that gram last month’s, it was good stuff.

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

In my experience (I isolate CBD and cannabinoids from whole extracts for a living), 99% purity CBD is neither a crystal nor does it look like that product. Also, CBD and other hemp or marijuana extracts dissolve near instantly into heated PG/VG, in under a minute for small amounts.

That said: its easy to granulate harder waxes like CBD and THC, so maybe theyve some proprietary tech for making their CBD look like that. But if it is CBD it should start to melt into a single mass at 100C (boiling water temp), if it stays discrete then its not a cannabis based lipid, I can tell you that much.

Finally – Don’t use PG/VG! It produces some vapor but mostly forms combustion byproducts (burns) when subjected to the temps that ecig coils get to. The PG breaks down into formaldehyde and VG becomes acrolein, a major carcinogen in cigs. When the two are together they form acetal compounds that release even more formaldehyde. Either way, heating PG/VG solutions damage lung tissue.

Dont take my word for it: http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMc1413069 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0116732

Its a shame to take something harmless like CBD and add poisons to it. And it isnt necessary. There are plenty of high combustion temp, low vapor temp oils that vape just fine in ecigs without burning. As a result they make more clouds, last longer, and have no harsh singed flavor when compared to PG/VG based liquids.

Eliquid manufacturers use PG and or VG because it lets them dissolve polar and non polar things like artificial flavors, fruit oils, and nicotine into the same liquid. The end result is a liquid thats slightly safer than a cigarette to consume, which is good enough for the cig smokers ecigs are targeted at.

But CBD and other cannabinoid lipids dont need PG/VG to dissolve; a high combustion temp oil works fine – nothing is easier than dissolving one type of oil into another. Just heat slightly and stir, under a minute and youre done. There are several brands of hemp and avocado oil that work great as a base. My company also makes a DIY eliquid base made from high temp fractions from hemp, soy and coco. Its what we use as a base for our CBD eliquid.

You can read more info about some of the other reasons PG/VG and artificial flavors are dangerous to vaporize at the Vapor Base page on our site http://www.rainyforestfarms.tk

[–]mesofire 2 points

I understand that you say you work in the field, however the study that you cited about e-cigs was largely debunked by doctors and professors explaining that the conditions were extremely unrealistic for normal e-cig usage.

Please take the time to read:

http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2706

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2015/192-form-ver

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/new-study-reports-high-levels-of.html

http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2015/01/22/formaldehyde-in-e-cigarettes-expert-responds/

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

Thanks for the links! More data is always good.

Clivebates is the only one that is trustworthy, and indeed they are the only ones who contacted the authors of the study. The rest are pro-ecig blogs and foundations. None of them address the formation of acrolein nor do they debate the study that found that hot PG/VG vapor damages lung tissue. (likely all hot vapor damages lung tissue to some extent)

We are unfortunately in a period not unlike the 50s-60s were for the cigarette industry: There are some studies coming out and showing that harm can indeed be caused, the nicotine sellers have paid for studies showing no harm, there is no regulation whatsoever, and as a result of all of this the average consumer is just as ignorant and vulnerable to the ad claims of the nicotine sellers as their grandmothers were to the ads about Lucky Strike, the cigarette 9/10 doctors prefer bc the “Toasting” of their tobacco removes all negative effects, and the like.

You see the dilemma? Luckily there are some simple experiments you can do at home and see for yourself the nasty stuff formed in ecigs. Lets assume you have a standard 3.7v batt to power a normal rda style atomizer.

RDA is necessary for this experiment because you are going to open up the top and shine an IR thermometer directly at the coil while its in use. This model is cheaper than some specialty juices and most atomizers: http://www.amazon.com/Temperature-Non-contact-Thermometer-Emissivity-Adjustable/dp/B00JA3BMDW/

Take a few puffs and time how long your average puff is for. Then point the thermometer at the coil (the laser is one inch above and parallel to the IR sensor) and activate the atomizer for the length of time you normally puff. To simulate a puff being taken at the same time, blow into the air holes at the base of the atomizer at the same rate you’d normally inhale from the mouthpiece.

At 5 seconds I observe temps of 450-500f for the normal 510 direct drip style atomizers, ego-w, and a patriot RDA/tank combo, all on a normal 3.7v ego batt. At ten (2x as long as I hit but I’ve friends who like to “milk” it so I thought I’d see what longer does) it was 650f.

Why is temp important? BC VG breaks down into the carcinogen acrolein at 350f+. Most flavor and color compounds eliquid makers use will break down at this temp as well.

High temp oils like hemp or avocado, or high temp blends like what we make here in the Rainy Forest, don’t break down at that temp.

Lets do another experiment. This ones a little more involved. Cut out 3 inch squares of coffee filter and tape them over your mouthpiece on your ecig. Puff as normal. If only vapor was produced, then the color of the stuff that begins to saturate the filter should be the same as the starting liquid. You will notice that it is not. It will be tinged brown, singed, from partial combustion.

This is also why your atomizer clogs and your wick becomes dark brown/black over time. If the liquids were just cleanly vaping off, this couldn’t happen.

This singing is also responsible for “throat hit”. Smokers love it bc they think they arent getting a hit unless it irritates their throat lining a little. But true vapor doesnt do this, it just feels like a cool mist.

Look: I’m not trying to argue that PG/VG eliquids aren’t less harmful than regular cigarettes. They may even be a useful tool for some to quit cigarettes. IDK – I found that reintroducing nicotine to my system just delayed the withdrawal and reinforced the addiction, I couldnt actually quit until I just, you know, stopped altogether.

But they aren’t harmless, and shouldnt be treated as such. And this is the real point I’m trying to make here: Using PG or VG isn’t necessary to make a vapor liquid. At all. They are only necessary if you’re trying to get weird flavors and colors and nicotine to all dissolve in the same solution. If you just want to dissolve and vape nicotine, plant oils, or especially something inherently harmless like CBD, why not just use a high temp oil that wont break down in ecigs?

It works much better – your coil doesnt get clogged from singed liquid, a full tank lasts 4x as long, and your throat doesnt get irritated from repeated use. It doesnt have that choking-on-toxic-fumes “throat hit” sensation smokers love, but the clouds are worth it!

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[–]RainyForestFarms 1 point

This is my new favorite bot! That’s cheaper than I got mine for. I shall have to start posting my potential amazon purchases on reddit from now on lol. I wonder if there’s an ebay one?

[–]Faxon 1 point

dude you realize that there is a giant fucking 500 gram bucket of crystal CBD pinned to the top of this sub right?

ed: since it is no longer pinned. 95% CBD crystals https://www.reddit.com/r/CannabisExtracts/comments/3nwhuq/500g_of_95_cbd/

[–]RainyForestFarms 1 point

Yeah, that looks like CBD to me. You call it “crystal cbd” but its not described as such by the poster nor does it look crystalline, its just yellow wax chunks. Which is what all purified CBD I’ve seen/made looks like.

The stuff CBD Wellness NM sells is clear, translucent, and shiny, very different looking from any other natural pure cannabinoid I’ve seen. Doesn’t appear to be a lipid at all. I can’t speculate further without someone doing at least a reagent test on CBD Wellness NM’s stuff.

[–]Faxon 1 point

my understanding was that since CBD doesn’t like to easily form a solid under any circumstances, even a small amount of terpenes as a solvent will turn the whole thing into a runny mess. all the CBD wax i’ve ever gotten was this consistency and while sometimes it had enough THC that sticking it in the fridge or freezer allowed it to shatter, it would be runny again before i even got it onto the dabber once I took it out. I blended an oz of CBD Cookies (10% CBD 7% THC) with another oz of blue dream and a 3rd of OG kush i’d previously used to make a blend of super stable shatter, and it came out sappy and hard to break workable pieces off of. had to use a dabber each time and it would come right off parchment or silicone when i was working it trying to get a snap and pull dab off of it. Tasted bomb as fuck though and saved my life for a bit, had an anxious breakdown a couple weeks before running that batch and it helped set me straight with 17g (20% yield) of fresh oil to keep my mind from exploding while I went to a shrink and got my head back on track. Still working on that effort daily but CBD has been instrumental in helping me get back on top of my anxiety

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

It is hard for the home hash extractor to get a harder, budder/wax type extract, for all the reasons you say: small amounts of plant oils or CBN or terpenes/oids very easily thin the wax into more of a putty/shatter consistency or even free flowing liquid oil.

When making whole extracts of marijuana, there are certain things you can do to minimize this, like making sure the bud is crispy dry, minimizing solvent contact with the herb so only the glands are stripped and not the cells, and high vacuum during purge all help to yield a more solid extract, but genetics of the strain you’re extracting has a lot to do with it. A strain with a ton of thin liquidy CBN will not yield a solid wax extract further isolation of the waxy components.

It’s important to distinguish between hash oils from high CBD marijuana, which have a wide variety of compounds, and purified isolates, which have only one.

My company uses hemp grown in the new federal pilot hemp growing program here in OR. It is from that I isolate my CBD. I do so with a broad CO2 extraction, which makes a standard honey oil type whole spectrum extract, then I use steam distillation to isolate the individual components.

It is to this and other similar isolates I am referring to when I say “CBD”, not a high potency whole extract like BHO. Because a pure isolate doesnt have all the variability in content a whole extract like hash has, it’s physical form doesn’t vary near as much. Which is why it is disturbing to see something offered for sale as pure CBD (the Wellness NM stuff) that doesnt look at all like every other batch of pure CBD I have ever seen or made (like the imgur link you posted). If you look up CBD’s physical properties on chemblink etc, you’ll see it listed as a pale yellow wax or oil every time, not a clear crystalline solid. Lipids just dont form the clear jagged crystals that salts can.

[–]Faxon 2 points

Yup I remember all of this from my research as well. I’m not a certified chemist (i would have had i been able to handle the general ed requirements, but my learning disabilities prevented me from obtaining a degree), but making extracts is my life now. I’d really like to get to where you are some day. Thanks for all the awesome posts on this topic so far. If not me then someone else will come along and learn a bunch because of your work.

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

Thanks, I really appreciate that. I get a lot of flak sometimes bc I say things that go against common perceptions (ie that you shouldn’t heat and inhale VG). But they are always evidence based views and I’m always willing to reexamine them. If I can help anyone at all by sharing its worth it.

You don’t need a big commercial setup to start isolating individual cannabinoids btw. A cheap condenser, a pyrex flask, and a digital hot plate from Amazon will let you set up a basic fractional still on your kitchen counter. With that you can easily get isolates from a whole cannabis extract. The yields arent ideal, it takes days, and you wont be able to get the individual terpenes out without more expensive condensers, but you can easily get a nice quantity of THC, THCV, CBN, CBG, CBDZ, and/or CBD isolate from your hash, depending upon whats in there to begin with.

I do not recommend consuming pure THC, even in states where its legal (I am assuming you are in a rec state or have your card in a mmj state, I do not endorse breaking the law). It’s hallucinogenic and not in a good way, heavy body load and lots of anxiety. Needs some CBD just to be recreational. But curiosity compels many, myself included, to try it, if only once, so no judgements lol

[–]Faxon 2 points

Yup I’ve been looking into what I need to get a good condenser so I can begin making medicine for my drug averse mother at a time when it makes sense. She’s tried 25:1 tinctures before and I’d like to be able to isolate and produce them while still giving her the proper entourage effect. She’s diagnosed IBS and also has tourettes/ADD/OCD (all related) which she doesn’t usually do anything for. They’ve helped me tremendously but she is still dubious because she thinks of cannabis a more of a thing for dying people than for healthy living due to having grown up and educated herself in the height of the 1970s and 80s anti-drug hysteria. I’m gonna definitely save for a condenser that can handle terpenes if I get into this, but you’re right that for now a simple condenser that lets me isolate THC and CBD will be adequate since my mother will be primarily using decarbed oral oils if she ever does start to use it regularly. As for THC in pure form, i once took 10mg of marinol and had a panic attack that lasted 3 hours. I 100% agree that pure isolates will never be the way to go with cannabis if you want the best quality medicine

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

http://www.amazon.com/MHB-LB120-1000C-KIT-Graham-Conderser/dp/B005MSHFDU

http://www.amazon.com/PYREX-Narrow-Mouth-Erlenmeyer-Flasks/dp/B004XR5VMI

http://www.amazon.com/United-Scientific-RSTPK1-Assortment-Assorted

These are good enough for the still part (and are enough to make homemade liquor on your electric stovetop), but to perform fractional distillation you need a precise heat source. Thats were the real expense is:

http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Digital-Hot-Plate-120/dp/B003NV43C4

Maybe the bot from earlier will find us cheaper, but that’s the real limiter. Cheaper heat sources won’t work: the difference between the evaporation temp of the various cannabinoids can be as little as 1 degree, so the heat source must be capable of this precision. Also, the room you perform the distillation in must be temp controlled, or they will muddy the results (mixed end fractions).

That said, with patience and a little trial and error, you can master the technique. And a still is nice to have around, not just for making isolates and liquors, also for making floral essences and perfumes. For example you can make your own natural pineapple flavor by distilling pineapples, then add this into your extract or your liquor!

If you do go this route, I’d suggest isolating everything out from your extract, discarding the THC (to fortify your own stash later), then mixing everything back together. That way its closer to a whole extract. You are quite correct that its better when multiple cannabinoids work in concert!

CBD by itself is not nearly as effective as in a whole cannabis extract. For my commercial products, we isolate out CBD, CBN, CBD, and CBDZ from hemp, then add in the terpenes hemp doesnt have in high quantities, like caryophyllene, limonene, eugenol, linalool, and more. We get these terps from food ingredients like lemon balm and lavender. Then we add in interesting cannabinoid compounds from other food ingredients, like anandamide from cacao and alkylamides from ginger. All the ingredients work in synergy, creating something much more well rounded than the plain, CBD only hemp supplements.

[–]PriceZombie 1 point

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[–]Kundalini_ 1 point

Thanks for the info !!! I felt in my gut that if wasnt safe to be inhaling these compounds because chances are they do combust….. So you suggest coconut or hemp oils to mix with CBD instead ?? CBD is great medicine for so many issues, but it’s so expensive, unless you extract it yourself…

[–]RainyForestFarms 2 points

Coconut oil will vaporize and not break down at ecig temps, but as its a solid wax at room temp, it doesnt feed into ecig wicks well. Most brands of hemp oil will vaporize and not break down in ecigs, and will feed into the wick/coil easily at room temp. This are suitable for making a vapor oil with, though it tends to have a very earthy and herby taste.

That said – vaping those oils at temps above 550f, or ~5v, can cause them to break down too, into acetal complexes. Standard ecigs get to ~500f and run at 3.7-4.2v, so its safe if you use a regular ecig, but if you’re running a mod at high voltage, it will burn it.

We actually discontinued our CBD vapor oil UpLifted and our DIY vapor oil base because of this – too many folks vape at high temps now, bc it burns their pg/vg eliquid even more than normal so as to generate get a “bigger throat hit”, and we didn’t want to risk harming anyone.

Instead we’ve moved our focus to heatless vaporizers and liquids. There’s no risk of combustion or thermal breakdown if theres no heat. Here’s our DIY guide to making water based liquids for heatless vaporizers (our own and others): https://rainyforestfarms.wordpress.com/diy-heatless-vapor-liquids/ It explains how to prepare herbal wax, oils, and extracts for use in heatless vapes.

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